Known as possibly the most difficult interview subject in rock, Vines leader Craig Nicholls recently cancelled any further interviews regarding the new Vines album Winning Days, instead referring journalists to Patrick Matthews, his long suffering bass player. Before he did that, Blunt editor Matt Reekie sat down at a pub and had a long chat with our Craig, only to find that beneath that everyday neurosis he wears proudly like a badge, beats the heart of your average, uber-talented, self-involved, rags-to-riches rock star.

I wish I could write a story about how Craig Nicholls is all crazy and weird and zany and on the verge of suicide and the Vines are on the verge of collapse and the planet’s crumbling because a suburban Sydney kid with a guitar in his hands had the sheer audacity to take an opportunity most songwriters would stab siblings for and make an album in America instead of slogging it out in Australian beer barns for years first. But that’s the story you’ve probably already read about the Vines a zillion times since they burst onto the scene with their debut album Highly Evolved in August 2002. The tale has been told by many a rock writer, always using references to Big Macs, bongs, temper tantrums, onstage fights and some terrible live performances on the 2003 Big Day Out tour. But rarely does anyone seem to elicit anything decipherable from Craig.

People talk of him being aloof, shy and hard to interview. He stormed out on reputable Triple J DJ Richard Kingsmill, and has been known to throw the odd journo’s tape recorder at a wall when the mood takes him. But to me he seemed just like any normal suburban kid not dealing very well with adulation and attention. Although he answered my questions to the best of his ability, I get the impression he’d just like to play rock music and be left alone altogether. Certainly whoever said he was shy hit the nail on the head.

As we sit and begin discussion on the all important second album that he and Vines cohorts Patrick Matthews (bass), Hamish Rosser (drums), and Ryan Griffiths (guitar) have just released, Winning Days, Craig’s eyes dart nervously around the room. In addition to this he has the annoying habit of looking past me to a reflection of himself in a huge mirror behind. But really, he’s no more neurotic than most of my good friends. Maybe that’s why we got on alright together? Or at least why there were no difficult moments, dodging questions, awkward pauses or thrown Dictaphones. Just two guys in the back of a Sydney pub having a talk about music…

Winning Days is a great album. Are you happy that there’s going to be no backlash now from sections of the media who probably had knives at the ready?

I feel okay about it. We just want to make good albums. It can be taken any way, but it’s meant to be enjoyed. We definitely don’t want it to inspire any violence by us or anyone else, for any reason. Peace is good.

Did you envision that making a second album was going to be difficult?

It felt pretty natural to us. There were some songs than we had leftover, which were pretty much finished when we finished the first album and we knew we were going to do them. Then we had a bunch of songs that were a bit newer, some were only half done, but we had more than enough songs to choose from. With what we had, we felt ready to do the second album – it felt right.

Did you, or do you still feel the pressure of, “What are people going to think, will it live up to expectation?”

I’m starting to get nervous, but I think that’s just because I’m starting to do interviews again. Because I feel I do my best to describe myself and more importantly the band and the music…But we don’t really mind. We’re proud of what we’ve done, we’re in it for the right reasons, if people like it, that’s cool. I think we would still be able to go on if people didn’t like it; actually, we’d probably quit, I don’t know?

Really, you care?

I don’t care, I’m just being retarded.

I really liked the way you fucked with everyone in the lead up by describing the album as electro or like Van Halen…

Patrick said that, I thought it was kinda funny.

But you were saying it was going to go electronic right from Highly Evolved.

I was saying that, I was probably a little premature in saying that, it’s not going to happen right away – we’re a rock band. I was just getting really carried away. I think it’s something I want to get into and I think I could do it with this band, maybe get more of it on the 3rd album, if we get to that point.

How much are the other guys contributing now, is it feeling more like a band than it did making Highly Evolved?

I think it’s more now, we’re more of a band now, I guess. Patrick plays bass, Hamish plays drums, and Ryan plays guitar and I sing, so whatever part anyone comes up with for their instrument, that is what it will be. We have a good nonverbal understanding – if something feels good, go with that. I guess is kind of works like that onstage as well.

Do you think your performance at Homebake last year put to bed all the stuff about The Vines being crap live?

We had a good time doing that. You can’t control the reviews. I had a good time. It was cool to play will all those other bands.

Was it Australian’s afflicted with Tall Poppy Syndrome who said those things in the first place?

I’m so self-absorbed that I don’t know anything about culture and I can barely read, but I just think that maybe people expected something different, or something more. They wanted the clouds to open up and Jesus to come down. I really wasn’t sure. It didn’t bother us because we’re a rock band. It’s not like we’re a pop act who would take that onboard and go, “Right, we’ve gotta fix up our act.” It’s interesting people having those opinions.

Does it feel any different playing live now than it did a year ago?

It’s the same craziness. In the studio we can be real serious but then we take that out there and sometimes we play the songs like the album but sometimes something can be different. It can be twice as fast or twice as slow and that’s the most exciting thing for me. You have the album if you want to listen to the proper recordings of the songs, but I think we’d go mad if we played the songs the exact same way every night and went through the same emotions. Bands that I always liked, like Pavement, always had really good songs, but they could play them loose as well.

Is your focus to try and talk about the music in interviews this time - it seems like last time it was about everything but?

Yeah, after the first album we did so many interviews and I was trying to tell people that it doesn’t matter and that the songs were what was important to us, but somehow your words get manipulated or your image does. I’m not saying I’m perfect or anything, but I’m just an ordinary person who plays in a band who got a lot of attention put on us for whatever reason.

What is your opinion of journalists, do you ever wish you could write reviews of their reviews or articles?

I guess that’s their own world, they say what they feel about something at different times, like, they like it one day and hate it the next. We don’t really mind because we got into it for music, we didn’t do it for attention. Of course we want our music and our songs to be heard, but I find it really strange that you’d want to talk to me, or anyone would want to talk to me about it. I find it kinda strange.

Did you ever have aspirations beyond music?

I never wanted to do anything. I remember in school being interested in art and music classes, but this just kind of happened. It was fun to do, just jam and write songs.

Was it your demo getting discovered that was the turning point?

Yeah, the demo made it different. At the start it wasn’t serious, but that was the point where I thought we might be able to do this seriously. That was when we were serious about having good songs, and having a lot of good songs, because we knew we wouldn’t last 5 minutes. We wrote so much and we weren’t doing it to get a major deal, even though that may have been what we wanted, but it was just like, “We want to be a band, we want to put out albums, we want to play onstage…” We didn’t know that we were going to have this opportunity to go to America and record in a good studio with a good producer. He really liked our demos so we just thought, “Just go for it.” And then it was kinda mad and I did a whole bunch of interviews and spread a whole lot of crap, but I got through it.

But you were always writing songs despite having no real aspirations…

I always had aspirations for the songs. When we finished the first album, I thought we were going to do the second one straight after, I didn’t have a concept that the band was going on tour. Even though I had seen bands I liked, it didn’t really click. But people were saying to me, “If you don’t go out on tour, nobody is going to know who you are.” So then we did that and we really enjoyed that side of it…but we always wanted people to hear our music, we just weren’t sure if people were going to.

What would you have done if it hadn’t all happened?

It’s not a pleasant thought. I’m glad it happened for us. I was serious and I really believed in it; it was the only thing for me to do. I couldn’t picture myself doing anything else.

Did you ever feel like everything good had already been done?

Sometimes, but rather than thinking that so much had been done and being intimidated by that, it was really exciting for me to think of everything that could be done. I still think that way and that’s why I still talk about digital music and stuff. It’s crazy. That’s probably the next chapter, I don’t know?

Disassembling Days

Craig Nicholls takes Blunt through the new Vines album, Winning Days, track by track…

Ride: It didn’t hit me until we were mixing it but we all agreed this was the one to start out with. It’s very poppy and also it’s kind of heavy as well. It’s a mix between those two. The words are like poetry, very random, abstract, I’m not really trying to say anything, more just like throw out a collage of sound.

Animal Machine: We tried to get different sounds to go with the vibe of each track and that one is kinda evil. It’s heavy but it’s not necessarily so fast, we used to play it faster live. It’s an interesting little trip. I guess I compare it to “In the Jungle” on the first album.

TV Pro: We’re really proud of this one, this is the most futuristic sounding one, We really want to go more in the direction of that. It starts off really dreamy and then turns into rock and then goes back into a dreamy ballad and back and forth. It’s got a good sing-a-long middle section.

Autumn Shade II: That one is the most restrained song, it’s just meant to be very mellow with the vocal harmonies and stuff. It’s very moody, it’s very held back, but it’s definitely a ballad ballad.

Evil Town: It’s sludgy but kinda melodic. I started writing it about a person but it turned into a place and the last verse has got a lot of attitude – it felt really good to sing that. I remember getting that on the first take. It was one of the few things that I got on the first take.

Winning Days: I think that’s the best song we have. It’s very sentimental, I was shaking when I sung it because I felt it. It is kind of abstract but it is really personal. It’s about thinking about a long time ago, at least the first three lines are, then it’s just about feeling really disconnected. The lyrics can be a bit introspective and a bit depressing, but the melody is uplifting.

She’s Got Something to Say to Me: That’s a pop song, very simple. It starts out heavy but it’s got an old school sound, like ‘60s surf rock, the Beach Boys…

Rainfall: That is a jingle, jangle thing, kind of like a cross between a ballad and a pop song. It’s meant to have good energy and be relaxing.

Amnesia: I think that’s got the best lyrics, I was really proud of those ones. It’s one of the longest songs, it’s really dreamy with lots of layers. I like doing that because it opens up and there’s something majestic about it. Sometimes hearing a slow song can affect you more than something really fast, it’s a whole different other side of it.

Sun Child: It’s my country rock song but we did a lot of overdubs to make it interesting. This is old, it was our first single, but the recording was not so good but we thought it was a good song and it would be worth doing again. I’m really glad we did because I think we hit it right on the head.

Fuck the World: It’s a cross between me being kinda pissed off with the world and also me wanting to save the world. It’s environmental and kind of sarcastic as well because at the end of the song I’m singing, “Fuck the world, don’t.” I’m being sarcastic saying, “Fuck the world, do it, do whatever you want, no one is going to stop you.” But I don’t think that’s what I really want, that’s just the way it came out because I feel so frustrated sometimes.